Messages

1

Suggestion Box / Re: General Tweaks for the Nosferatu

« on: October 13, 2014, 11:02:56 am »

Not sure if any of the Disciplines other than a few trademarks ones are mentioned, most are implied.

I think Mask of a Thousand Faces can be smartly implemented in the game, because even in the original pen and paper it required blood points to maintain, and you didn't get to choose what you looked like (meaning you couldn't just be anyone's twin). If a Nossie decided to cross Santa Monica with that Discipline, he would end up losing most of his blood points. It's also not fullproof - animals and children might sense you and Auspex would outright dispel the illusion.

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Suggestion Box / Re: General Tweaks for the Nosferatu

« on: October 10, 2014, 12:13:35 pm »

Hi, great to see that you care for the Nosferatu, they need it.

To clarify for the Nosferatu opening - if you look at it closely you will see that initially the Nosferatu looks normal, the Ventrue model I think, I might be wrong. That is because when you met and up until he/she got executed, a Discipline on Obfuscate 3 - Mask of a Thousand Faces was used, to trick you into seeing, feeling, smelling a normal human being. This ability of the Discipline is standard in the pen-n-paper game, but sadly is not present in Bloodlines, probably because then you will just spam it and play like any other clan.

And yeah, I agree that if we have a lot of extra clothes, they shouldn't adhere to the same stereotype. I wouldn't want all Nosferatu to be wrapped like burn victims (most common, believe me), nor would I like everyone be dressed as a gimp or a Baron Samedi. There should be enough diversity to not overthink clothing as if it's the sole expression of the Kindred's character like it is in Bloodlines.

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Development / Re: Companions

« on: September 25, 2014, 04:59:44 pm »

That approach sounds very cool too. It would go nicely with the theme of the world. However if we center it so much on characters in the game, there should be a lot more conversations in the game. In Bloodlines you speak with people mostly if they help you out with a quest. If we are to have a more immersive experience, quests shouldn't be so obvious and you should be able to take the time and just learn about people.

Bottom line, if interactions in game replace background statistics, that means those interaction should be diverse, detailed and compelling. More so than they were in Bloodlines, where basically nobody helped you and your choices helped you have an ally by the end.

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Suggestion Box / Re: Clothes in the Game

« on: September 24, 2014, 04:03:27 pm »

Yes there could be diversity, I'm not against that . Those are the cosmetic changes I talked about and it looks like we'll get them thanks to project Vaulderie. The system would not need an overhaul if the only things you were changing was clothing (The secret world is a notable example of this). Some quests might need you to change your clothes for story reasons, otherwise you could do that yourself without effects to gameplay and that's about it. If I understand you correctly that is what you would want, right?


In Bloodlines' defense - it offered stereotypical Kindred as player characters and (maybe because of Source) never stated that you could change much of how you looked like and it never bothered me. Maybe it was just me but I never wanted to personalize how my character looked, only how he felt in the game. From what I can figure it's pretty easy to add that specific content but should cosmetics be the prime focus of our attention?

PS The Nosferatu player is stereotypical, because he has chosen to embrace his curse, rather than be disgusted by it, I actually thought it was rather fascinating, because no other Nosferatu was that comfortable with himself in the game.

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Suggestion Box / Re: Clothes in the Game

« on: September 24, 2014, 10:06:48 am »

Just wanted to reply to Konstantinos, because he missed parts of my previous post and I want to expand and clarify.

I am not talking about obvious human psychology, or even immortal Kindred psychology. I am talking about how the system is built and how it is meant to shape the gameplay. In VtM clothes are inherent to Appearance.

Let me prove it - Vampire the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition page 98-99:

 " The Appearance Attribute is a measure of how well a character makes a first impression. This may be conventional “attractiveness,” but it can also be the effect of distinctive features, an exotic mien, an air of confidence, distinctive posture, a flair for dressing well — anything remarkable upon initial observation can contribute to a character’s Appearance.

*  - Poor: Your clothes stink, you turn people off right away, or you’re just damned ugly."

Why is this important? - Because it implies that Appearance is not only something with which you are born with or can pay for with money. It's a trait you can work on and improve. A character with high Appearance will have the style and forethought to always wear appropriately impressive clothes - no Hazmat suits at parties.

If clothes, or in other words Appearance can be bought, that breaks down the system. Even if it is a single dot.

In conclusion I think it's best for clothes to serve to purposes - cosmetic and storytelling. If we want our characters to feel unique and special and have special gameplay altering things, we should think of other things not connected to the core rules.

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Development / Re: Companions

« on: September 24, 2014, 09:10:04 am »

more examples :
    he can be a driver for a sarcofagus, (BTW original game never explained where you get a truck from in Giovanii mansion.) 
    he/she can be helping you to escape Bloodhound map,
    he/she can help you to find some haven ( extra one ,)
    or just a hacking support from outside, (opens door, or calls a lift, etc, and opens extra route for you)
    he/she can be as well a someone inside some structures (like Syndicate ) and help you deliver some facts , etc.  so you can
    avoid some situations.

These things best describe what regular ghouls should be able to do. Otherwise it should be noted that extra helpful NPCs in the pen and paper game were part of the Kindred's Background:

Military - A mortal or a group of mortals with military experience. The only gun support that the Kindred can use.
Allies - Any NPC who is indebted to the Kindred or friendly to for some reason. He can help with anything within his power, reasonable to the Dots in the background.
Contacts - Any NPC who is in an information network - government, underworld, police force, tremere chantry etc.

If any of the NPCs can be used this way, it would be helpful if the Background was automatically added to the Character Sheet. That way the player will know what influences he has around the city and how much he can rely on these NPCs. Subsuquent quests might give more dots to those backgrounds.

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Suggestion Box / Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption

« on: September 24, 2014, 08:13:09 am »

I am not excited about this prospect and I'll tell you why. To me it's not a Vampire the Masquerade game, because that always meant that your choice mattered. Redemption is a hack-n-slash with inventory system more akin to Diablo than VTM where some binary choices eventually change the ending of an already cliche story.

Even if you fixed all the issues it has (it'll need a redesign for that because the crowd control Disciplines are overpowered in a way that changing a couple of numbers can't fix, and some are Diablo cop outs) - it will still be a serviceable hack-n-slash 12 years later.

The only thing I'll give Redemption is multiplayer and arguably more clans, and that is being made by Project Vaulderie for Bloodlines.

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Suggestion Box / Re: Original book's rules offer a good starting point

« on: September 23, 2014, 12:27:06 am »

I should think most of us still are GMs .

I have a thread in the Suggestion box where I also say that the original Disciplines can work perfectly in a computer game, no need to convince me .

As for the you controling NPCs - it isn't that simple. Yes it is about hierarchy, politics, and power, not just: aiming/shooting, running/slashing/punching, but over a large portion of time during which the Kindred develop the skills they need. That is why many GMs give considerable down time for the characters to learn and use their new traits. Neonates stay at the bottom of the ladder for a considerable amount of time.

Using Disciplines are also not a crutch for vampires. They take time to research, break the Masquerade and should not be used lightly. That is why vampires invest time in Charisma, Appearance, Intimidation, Manipulation and Subturfuge, instead of maxing out Dominate and Presence. That is why they learn Perception, Alertness, Empathy and Investigation instead of using Auspex and Eyes of Chaos all the time. Anything else will turn them into superheroes.

Actually most of the quest in the original VTMB could work with pen-n-paper's disciplines. Hospital's quest (taking the werewolf blood, finding lily, etc.) could be completed by using domination and actually controlling someone to make the job for you, this also available for astrolite's quest, museum etc. With the real auspex discipline you should be able to know when someone have something he didn't tell you in mind ( Gimble, Hengeyokai) or if there is something of interest in a room.

There are two reasons why this should not work quite like that.

The first is that to be able to do that most likely you would need the highest dots in the Disciplines Possession and the four dots in Telepathy. This is optimistic seeing as though they are among the first quests in the game.

The second reason is, if my lore reasoning is ignored, most quests can be completed this way. If nobody ever finds out you use Disciplines for everything no social combat and no stealth missions will exist. You can just Dominate a person to bring you the manifest to the Elizabeth Dane and to tell you about the Sarcophagus, you can learn about the whereabouts of Bertram without dealing with the twins, and if a random roll system was implemented, you could just reload until the Dominate attempt is succeeded. It's a slippery slope.

That said these Disciplines do have their place in the game, but it should be scripted responsibly, in a manner that a true Kindred would (supposedly) use. It would be the best of both worlds if more social combat was added, so you get have your politics and power play without expending vitae. A sense of building a lasting relationship with the city, not just following the elders' whims, something which was lacking in VtMB.

And for the day/night cycle - no Twilight, please no, never said anything remotely similar to that . I was not concerned that it would be hard for the players, it would be most welcome. I was concerned that it would probably take a lot of work and a lot of scripting just so we can have this mechanic with which we barely interact. I would suggest levels that include daylight which will basically have the same effect to bring the authentic WoD atmosphere. That way we have a nice change of pace and the feel of true vampiric unlife.

I hope we're on the same page on this one. Peace

9

Development / Re: Companions

« on: September 22, 2014, 11:39:31 pm »

Well it does sound cool to have companion, as long as it doesn't distract from the story and atmosphere. If it was any mortal or vampire it would look like a gimmick, though. Companions should either be vassals (servants), or friends to the character, they shouldn't feel like pets you randomly gave blood to.

Also it should be taken into account that normally a Kindred should ask the Prince for permission for keeping a ghoul, because they can be troublesome. If Heather was found out, you would've been punished.

If people really want to see the player on a mission with a companion I picture the companion in a supporting role - driver, shooter who covers you, accomplice in a con job. The game would be very different if you could get an axe wielding mortal to help you fight Sabbat. Most of the loner, flexible game style will be ruined.

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Suggestion Box / Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption

« on: September 22, 2014, 11:24:32 pm »

I've finished Redemption, and frankly I'm not sure it deserves the effort . Sure there are some things that were great at the time, but the voice acting is hilarious, the Disciplines are an unbalanced mess and most of the levels lean heavily on the repetative side.

My advice - try it, I run a buggy Windows 8.1 and I had no problems with it. You should be able to play it. In the end it's DnD with vampires with corny accents

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Suggestion Box / Re: Sewers shortcuts, extra content.

« on: September 22, 2014, 11:12:12 pm »

It sounds cool, especially because Nossies shouldn't be able to just catch any old cab anyway.

It would be cool if it was designed so you would be able to quickly enter the sewer and jump to another map, or if you wanted to - to scout around for rats to eat and other secrets. I say this because many games initially make you work for these pathways you use, but then they make them annoyingly long every time you slogged through them, it would be a shame if the new sewers became tedious if you have to run through a labyrinth every time you wanted to go to Downtown.

I would love to see Nosferatu maintaining their network in the sewers by the way. Right now they just sit around and look important.

There was a cool saying I heard once - " If you look ahead and see nothing, there is a 50% chance you are looking at a Nosferatu straight in the eye"

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Suggestion Box / Re: Clothes in the Game

« on: September 22, 2014, 11:00:51 pm »

I am all for clothes being there where the story requires, but I am against them giving you social stats like Appearance. The reason is that stats are gained with precious experience, and rarely - occult items. Having +1 to Appearance for wearing a low cut dress will not be fair, will cheapen the stat for the people who invested in it and will not be realistic. Part of what set VtM aside from most games is the detail on character creation and development instead of item choices - in the books Appearance includes fashion, style and physique.

A notable exception to this is the heavy armor which gives you more defence for less dexterity, even so that is a realistic and sensible trade-off since you can choose whether to be able to take a hit or shoot straight. The "social costume" clothing would possibly only give bonuses to a place you know there will be no fighting in, which would be a no-brainer.

As for other bonuses. Ask yourself this - does a piece of clothing improve a talent or skill I don't have, moreover something as fundamental as an attribute? I'm not trying to be rude, it just sounds silly.

Right now I can't imagine a suitable bonus that a piece of clothing can give so as not to be unfair or unrealistic.

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Suggestion Box / Re: Original book's rules offer a good starting point

« on: September 04, 2014, 12:21:32 pm »

I like the books too, enough to order them (I'm from Bulgaria). But can you tell us what you would suggest for the actual computer game. The original VTMB is made with all the politics implied, sadly you are only a pawn in the game of elders, and considering it's a hard transition from pen'n'paper that's not so bad of an explanation. The only way for any content to not be solely action focused like you said is for it to be scripted in many different ways (I think), so maybe you can suggest some story and mechanics you would like to play in a new content?

Otherwise, I understand why they didn't make a day/night cycle, and maybe we could bring that back, even though it would be silly for the vamp to sleep in Killpatrick's for instance, cuz he got stuck there and can't get home.

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Suggestion Box / Re: Frenzy sequence

« on: September 04, 2014, 12:10:30 pm »

I find it hard to see where you disagree with me in your last post to be honest.

I am not suggesting a drastic change, as I said earlier - leave frenzy like it is now (with improved visuals if possible), then if the player changes targets of tries to move, have a [ You have expended a Willpower point] message pop up. Have Elysium NPCs sell blood. Play around the tension of Frenzy (like you also suggest).

Everything else is my rationalization of why this should be done and extra mechanics for Multiplayer which is a lot of work anyway.

I don't think a video sequence for frenzy would not work because:

- If the player is in an original location (eg Sabbat Warehouse), he could
 * enter a gore-filled scripted movie that kills all the enemies and the player regains control once that's done. This way this is an easy win mechanic for the player, will be abused and would not benefit gameplay.
 * enter a gore-filled scripted movie that might randomly let the player be killed - sounds nice and dangerous, but what would determine whether he dies if it's  "a video sequence not in game animation" and no healthbars are shown?

- If the player is not in a hostile, who does the player kill, where does he go afterwards? What happens when he enters frenzy with no one around like the original game. Contingencies like that will need to be scripted.

- Consider that it would probably not be that easy to animate a video sequence, and it will probably going to be just that single one every time the player enters frenzy. It might be cool the first couple of times, but seeing it over and over again, in addition to not being able to do stop your character could be annoying.

If you are willing to leave it as an in-game cinematic where you attack people like in the original, what would you improve, other than the visuals?

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Suggestion Box / Re: Let VTMB die if need be.

« on: August 28, 2014, 03:39:30 pm »

What? Where is this coming from? It's obvious these guys have made remarkable headway, White Wolf is silently approving of this in my opinion and new content is being discussed. It's not as if there is an over- abundance of good PC vampire games or WoD games. By the way every time a professional studio tried to make a good WoD game it always fell short, maybe these guys are the "someone else" we are waiting for.